This article is the 1st part (and introduction) to a 9 part series on Universal Restoration vs Eternal Torment (hell).
- Universal Restoration vs Eternal Torment (hell) introduction (You are here)
- The Biggest Hole in Hell: Aion, Ages and Eternity
- Can you be saved after you die?
- So let’s talk a little bit about the word “hell”
- Scriptures That Support Universal Restoration
- Scriptures In Revelation That Support Universal Restoration
- So why did Jesus die if not to save us from hell?
- The Early Church Fathers on Universal Restoration
- Universal Restoration vs Eternal Torment Conclusion
Is Hell Forever?
The obvious answer that virtually all Christians would reply immediately is “yes”.
In a nutshell, the life and afterlife goes like this according to the traditional view:
You are born, and while living on earth you either come to a saving faith in Jesus Christ or don’t. If you are a believer, then when you die you go to heaven and spend the rest of forever in paradise with God. If you don’t believe, then you are thrown into the lake of fire to be tormented for the rest of forever for your sins.
This is basic Christian doctrine and denying it would be considered heresy.
A while ago, a friend who loves God deeply and is very smart (smart enough to find a mistake on an IQ test) started questioning this doctrine. And I do mean honestly questioning. They weren’t out to stir up trouble; they had legitimate concerns that our understanding of the afterlife and hell was wrong.
They had found some scripture that seemed to indicate that hell was not forever. Rather, that it was temporary punishment meant to make men repent. They said that salvation after death was possible, and therefore eventually all of mankind – even those in the lake of fire – would end up repenting, after which they could go to heaven as well.
And yes, I know that’s heresy.
This view is properly called “Universal Restoration“, which is sadly often confused with “Universalism“. We’ll define these terms in a moment.
This person shared these concerns with me and I figured I’d look into it for five minutes and solve it for them. I was wrong. Instead of a shallow “whishy-washy” theology, I found enough scripture supporting their position to dig deep.
Defining Terms:
There are essentially two different branches of Universal Restoration/Universalism. Sadly, there are no defined names for the two different branches. Thus they are often confused with each other, or even considered to be the same thing by many people.
Here is a short summary of the two branches:
- Branch #1 was described above and believes the same as orthodox Christianity on all points except one. They believe that we can be saved after we die. They also believe that salvation after death requires the same things as salvation before death: namely repentance, faith, and confessing that Jesus Christ is Lord. They believe this can take place after death in the exact same way as before death.
- Branch #2 is the one that (heretically) believes that Jesus’ work on the cross applies to everyone indiscriminately. They usually say that repentance, faith, and confessing Jesus as Lord is good/nice, but deny they’re necessary for salvation. Historically, this second branch has often aligned itself with those who deny the Deity of Christ (called “Unitarianism”)
Both branches can – in a purely technical sense – correctly be called “Universalism”, however they are obviously vastly different; worlds apart in theology. Unfortunately, there are no terms to differentiate them and the second branch is what most people think of when they think of universalism. This isn’t wrong in a purely technical sense, but paints with too broad of a brush. It’s rather like thinking that everyone in Germany during WWII was a Nazi.
Obviously that’s not true.
Likewise, not all “Universalists” believe the second branch, and many believe the first branch.
To be clear, we will NOT be discussing the second (heretical) branch of Universalism in this article series; we will only look at the first branch.
This is because the second branch has no support from scripture whatsoever, while the first arguably might.
For the remainder of this article, the terms “universalism” and “Universal Restoration” will only apply to the first branch, and never to the second.
For the sake of clarity, again here is the idea that this article series will examine in detail:
Universal Restoration agrees with the traditional view on all points view except one. They believe that hell is not “Eternal Torment”, but rather “Temporary Discipline”. The Universal Restoration position believes that you can be saved after death. That is THE defining difference. They believe that the lake of fire is the final and harshest thing God uses to turn wicked and unrepentant hearts toward Himself. And once a sinner in hell repents and turns toward God, they too will be saved.
In all other respects, they believe that same as Orthodox Christianity.
What follows is my research laid out with as little bias as possible. Everyone has a bias. I have tried as much as possible to keep my bias out of this paper, but I’m sure I wasn’t completely successful.
To be clear I am NOT arguing for OR against either position.
Honestly, I’m writing this out to help organize my own thoughts. I always understand things better after sitting down and writing them out. This article is the result of my search for a place to “plant my doctrinal flag” on the fate of mankind in the afterlife.
(NOTE: since originally writing this article several years ago, I’ve made many edits as I discovered new information. Over time, it has become less unbiased as information was added, especially in articles #2 and #3. Just FYI.)
A Note on Wrath and God’s view of Sin
God doesn’t wink at sin.
He doesn’t say “Oh, it’s okay. Don’t worry about it.”
When we sin, we offend the God of all creation with our actions. We were made in His image and designed to imitate Him. So when we sin, it’s almost like we’re saying “God would do ______ sin” (Murder, adultery, theft, etc.). With our sin, we declare the only Righteous God and Judge to be a wicked sinner. This rightly offends God and makes Him (justly) outraged.
Because of our sins, we all deserve to be fried with a lightning bolt and then roasted on a spit for all eternity.
To be clear, we deserve eternal torment.
But God is also merciful.
He rightly punishes sin in His creation, and His justice is just as much an expression of His goodness as His mercy is. Mercy and justice met perfectly at the cross. Through Jesus’ blood our sin was cleansed and so we can have peace with God once more.
But only through Jesus’ blood.
All (true) Christians agree that the only path to peace with God leads through Jesus’ work on the cross. They also agree we need to repent and believe to be saved. God sometimes sends judgement and harsh punishments to turn wicked and unrepentant hearts to Himself. He also sometimes floods us with His goodness to make us repent.
In the view of Universal Restoration/Universalism “hell” is the former. It is a terrible, horrible, awful punishment God uses to bring unbelievers to repentance. The only difference is Universal Restoration believes you can be saved after you die. Salvation still must come through faith in Jesus. Those that don’t believe in this life have a terrible fate awaiting them in the next… but after long enough in a lake of fire, they too will repent and be saved. (in the view of Universal Restoration.)
Until they do, they will endure the punishment of ages in the lake of fire.
Because God still doesn’t wink at sin.
An Overview of Hell (Eternal Torment)
I will only spend a little time here because hell is a well known doctrine. The existence of hell hinges on two points. Without them, there’s almost no foundation for the doctrine. Those two points are the use of the word “eternal” and the cultural context of the word translated “hell”.
The points below are only a quick overview, NOT an in-depth treatment.
We will examine them much more closely in separate articles. For now, I’m just looking to give you a brief overview.
Pillar #1: The Word Translated “Eternal”
There are several phrases which commonly come to mind when discussing hell. Phrases like “eternal punishment”, “eternal destruction”, etc. However, the word translated “eternal” doesn’t mean eternal. For example:
Matthew 24:3
3 As He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”
The word above I’ve highlighted in red is the exact same word translated “eternal” in every single verse where the duration of punishment in the afterlife is discussed. No exceptions. None whatsoever. This word (and it’s adjective form) are the only words used to describe the duration of punishment in the afterlife. The word means “age”, which indicates a time period with a defined beginning and end.
Every reputable Greek lexicon I could get my hands on says it means “age”. Further, the word has a a plural form meaning “ages”. Does it make sense to say “eternities” or “forevers”? Once you understand the meaning of this word, you’ll realize the foundation for “eternal” torment (hell) rests on very shaky ground.
(Also, the “unforgivable sin” verse is the most egregious example of mis-translation in the Bible. For starters, virtually every translation omits – leaves out – three important Greek words that completely change the meaning. We’ll look at that in the next article.)
Pillar #2: The Ever-Burning Burning Garbage Pit
In several places, Jesus references “hell”. The word He uses is the Greek word Gehenna, which is a proper noun referring to the Valley of Hinnom outside Jerusalem. Most scholars agree that this valley was essentially a great burning trash heap. The people of Jerusalem would throw all their garbage into it and because it was constantly being fed, the fire would never go out.
However, this view doesn’t line up with history.
The first time anyone described “Gehenna” (The Valley of Hinnom) this way was over a thousand years after Christ. Further, archeologists have recently uncovered an orderly landfill outside Jerusalem in the neighboring Kidron valley. This landfill was used during Jesus’ entire lifetime and for a couple decades afterward. Further, it was designed so that it wouldn’t smell or be an eyesore.
Why would they have a great stinking, burning, sooty garbage dump on one side of Jerusalem and a clean, orderly (almost modern) landfill on another side?
It makes zero sense to believe they did.
Further, the Jews had their own meaning attached to “Gehenna”. To this day, they don’t believe in eternal torment, just as they haven’t for their entire history. They believed that sins could be forgiven after death based on Isaiah 22:14, which we’ll look at in just a moment.
Once those two pillars are dealt with, you’ll see that a scriptural basis for eternal torment (hell) isn’t as ironclad as you’ve been taught.
An Overview of Universal Restoration
Below are some of the main pillars of the Universal Restoration school of thought.
Again, the points below are only a quick overview and is NOT an in-depth treatment. (That’ll come in the individual articles)
The Bible Never Says You Can’t Be Saved After Death
It’s not in there.
You can scour the book from end to end and not find it… except for possibly one parable the Jesus tells. In Luke 16, Jesus tells the parable of Lazarus and the Rich man. It makes reference to a “great chasm” between reward and punishment in the afterlife.
However, if you read it in context you will see that Jesus is making an analogy. Once you understand some context about their culture and history, the true meaning of this parable becomes obvious.
Besides, why is this the only one of Jesus parables we take literally?
Isn’t a parable a story that isn’t about the subject matter by definition?
Further, if this parable is literal you have to believe something strange. If this parable is literal, then Christians will be able to see and talk to our unsaved friends/family in the afterlife… while they are being tormented for all eternity. From heaven, you will see your loved ones tormented in hell for all time. Or at least, That what it looks like to me.
Can sins be forgiven after death?
That’s what Isaiah 22:14 seems to indicate.
Isaiah 22:14
14 But the LORD of hosts revealed Himself to me, “Surely this iniquity shall not be forgiven you Until you die,” says the Lord GOD of hosts.
God said that this sin was so bad that it couldn’t be forgiven “until you die”. That clearly seems to indicate that sins being forgiven after death is not only possible, but perhaps even likely.
The Gospel Has Been Preached To The Dead
Believe it or not, Jesus himself preached the Gospel to the dead. (after His death and before His resurrection)
1 Peter 4:6
6 For the gospel has for this purpose been preached even to those who are dead, that though they are judged in the flesh as men, they may live in the spirit according to the will of God.
If you back up and read the context, you’ll discover two things. First, Jesus did this preaching while he was “put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit” (1 Pet 3:18). So therefore He wasn’t talking to men who were living. And second that the dead to whom Jesus is speaking to here were (at least) the evil men of Noah’s day. You know, the men who were so wicked that God destroyed the entire world. Yup, those wicked men. According to this verse, they were dead and “judged in the flesh as men” but now “live in the spirit”. The phrase “live in the spirit” certainly sounds like being saved to me.
This is made even more clear by a verse in Ephesians.
It talks about Jesus leading s “host of captives” on high after “descending to the lower parts of the earth” (a common slang term for the underworld; even today we say “down to hell” vs. “up to heaven”) We’ll examine this passage in more detail in future articles.
“Enter by the gates”
It’s quite interesting what the Book of Revelation has to say about the gates of heaven. (Okay, the gates of the city on the New Earth, but conceptually they’re almost the same thing.)
Revelation 21:23-25
25 In the daytime (for there will be no night there) its gates will never be closed;
This is more interesting because of two other verses shortly afterward in Revelation. We’ll look at verse 15 first, and then verse 14.
Revelation 22:15
15 Outside are the dogs and the sorcerers and the immoral persons and the murderers and the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices lying.
The city is where believers are, “outside” is where everyone else is. That’s very interesting in light of the previous verse:
Revelation 22:14
14 Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter by the gates into the city.
Wash their robes is a common Biblical terms for being saved/cleansed of sin. The tree of life is no less obvious, and notice the final bit: “enter by the gates into the city”. If everyone who is outside the city is a sinner/unbeliever, and then they “wash their robes” so they can “enter by the gate into the city”, and if the gates will never be shut….
Does “all” really mean “all”?
There are many verses where the Greek word for “all” appears to apply universally; that is, to everyone. Here’s just one example of many, which we’ll go through in a future article.
I Corinthians 15:22
22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.
The word “all” in the first clause clearly means all men without exception. Could the “all” in the second clause mean all men without exception too? Again, many won’t believe in this life and thus will have to suffer the lake of fire, but if Universal Restoration is correct then they can be “made alive” in Christ after repenting even after death.
Again, this is just one example of many verses of this type.
Jesus Watches A Torture Show for all Eternity?
Revelation 14:10-11
9 Then another angel, a third one, followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand,
10 he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.
11 “And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever (Aion of the Aion); they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”
(Note: the words translated “forever and ever” here are the same ones who definition mean”age” that we’ve already talked about.)
If Eternal Torment is true, then Jesus will be standing in the midst of this torment for all eternity to watch. However, if Universal Restoration is correct, then Jesus isn’t there just to watch; He’s there to pull people out the moment they repent. (like a lifeguard at a pool).
Punishment is correction/discipline, not punishment for punishment’s sake
In the New Testament, the Greek words used for “punishment” in the afterlife don’t exactly mean “punishment”. They come from the root word which means “to prune”. When you prune something, you cut away everything that’s bad for the plant in order to help it grow stronger. The end goal is the good of the plant. These are the words Jesus uses to describe the “punishment” in the afterlife. (I think “discipline” is a better translation)
We’ll look at these words in more detail in a future article.
The Bible does use words to describe punishment for punishment’s sake. For example, punishment for a crime. However, these words are never used to talk about punishment in the afterlife.
Church History
(I will prove all of the below in the article on what The Early Church Fathers said about Universal Restoration)
It might surprise you to learn that for the first ~500 years of Christianity, eternal torment in hell wasn’t the most common view. In fact, the idea of eternal torment in hell was arguably a fringe idea for about 300 years after Christ. (which I can and will prove in the article.)
Just one quick proof.
There were six major Christian theological schools in the early church. Of them, 4 taught Universal Restoration while only 1 taught Eternal torment. There were many other minor schools, nearly all of which were founded by people who believed Universal Restoration.
Further, most of the early Church Fathers who championed the idea of Eternal torment didn’t speak or read Greek. Therefore they read the New Testament Scriptures in a Latin translation instead of the the original Greek. The rise of eternal torment as a majority view coincided with the rise of Latin (and decline of Greek) as the common language.
In other words, Eternal Torment (hell) became popular when people stopped reading the original Greek and started using a Latin translation.
It may also surprise you to know that the Jewish people never believed in Eternal Torment (hell). They don’t believe it even to this day. They have always believed that punishment in the afterlife was limited in duration. In fact, the only significant sect of Jews who ever believed in eternal torment were the Pharisees of Jesus day.
But it gets worse.
Eternal torment wasn’t officially adopted until 543 AD when the Roman Emperor Justinian called a Church council to make Universalism heresy. (By adopting an official declaration he himself wrote.) As for Emperor Justinian’s character, he murdered 30,000 innocent civilians during the Nika riots to secure his power. That’s not exactly the kind of person I want dictating Church doctrine.
Therefore, a mass murderer is responsible for forcing the Church adopt Eternal Torment as it’s official teaching.
(Didn’t learn that in a Church history class did you?)
Conclusion
The above represents a very brief overview of both Eternal Torment and Universal Restoration. I will go into much more detail in the articles below. However, that should give you a good overview.
One more thing I will add. I can see how believing Universalism could theoretically produce more sincere and real Christians than believing eternal torment. Why? Because of Romans.
Romans 2:4
4 Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance?
Fear of hellfire can make a person change their actions, but won’t do anything for the heart. However, heart sins like hatred (which equals murder) need a heart change.
If the kindness of God leads you to repentance, than isn’t preaching hellfire counter-productive?
I know that turns evangelism on its head, but have you ever met a Christian who was truly and deeply seeking God because they were afraid of hell?
(I haven’t.)
The next article in this series is: The Biggest Hole in Hell: Aion, Ages and Eternity
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I read your text “http://www.bereanpatriot.com/universal-restoration-vs-eternal-torment-hell/”
I like your texts very much, but your argument using Revelation 22:17 is absurd. This verse speaks of the present tense and not of suffering in the fire.
I even asked my annihilationist friend to read, and not even he agreed, and he hates the belief in eternal punishment.
The word “aion” is also used to refer to the life of the saved, so we have to conclude that the saved will not spend eternity with God either.
The Greek text I’m looking at has no less than 36 present tense verbs in Revelation chapter 22. Further, nearly the entire book of Matthew is written in the present tense. And you’re right it doesn’t talk about suffering in fire… but I never said it did. My argument was that this verse – among others – indicates that even after death there’s still an option for repentance and forgiveness.
About your comment on the word “αἰών” (aion), have you read my article on the word? I do talk about this rather extensively.
This is all very interesting but I can’t help but notice it all seems to rely on the idea that belief is all that is necessary for salvation. If baptism is necessary for salvation, a soul cannot be baptized in water. 1 Peter 3:21, Mark 16:16, John 3:3-5, Acts 2:38, and every NT conversion story. Can baptism for salvation and universal restoration coexist as beliefs?
Interesting question, and I don’t see why they can’t coexist. We won’t live as disembodied spirits forever, but will have bodies; see most of 1 Corinthians 15. Thus, no problem for baptism since we will have bodies.
Even if that wasn’t the case, we do know that baptism isn’t required for salvation; the thief on the cross and Cornelius in Acts 10 make this 100% crystal clear, since they were saved without/before baptism. 1 Peter specifically states that it isn’t about water, Mark 16:16 wasn’t written by Mark and thus isn’t scripture, John 3 is about this life not the afterlife, and Acts 2 doesn’t state that baptism is necessary; just that it should be done. It’s required for obedience, but not salvation. Again, the thief on the cross and Cornelius in Acts 10 make this abundantly clear.
This is heresy period
My name is Alan Finch. JESUS became my Lord and Saviour in April of 1976.
I spent several years diligently searching the Scriptures to uncover what really made Biblical sense in regards to God’s true message to us of what really is the Good News of the Gospel of Christ, which I did not properly understand for most of my many years as a Christian.
My 1st 38 years as a Christian, I believed the unscriptural teaching about that there is going to be eternal torment for multitudes and multitudes of people. I then began to seriously question that teaching. I then decided to do an in-depth study of the Bible concerning this issue, and the Scriptures revealed to me that I had believed a horrible lie for all those years.
The Lake of Fire is not a physical Lake of Fire, but a Spiritual Lake of Fire from God’s Spirit for the purpose of “RESTORATION.” God is a God of “ETERNAL RESTORATION,” not a God of “eternal destruction.”
In Acts 3:21 God promises that there shall be a “RESTORATION” of ALL things! What is there not to understand about this wonderful promise that God has made to us?
The overall theme of the Bible is that God’s ultimate plan for ALL mankind is to restore, not destroy in an eternal Lake of Fire or eternal annihilation!
In John 12:32 JESUS clearly states that He is going to draw ALL people to Himself! Not a portion of mankind, but ALL of mankind.
In John 6:44 JESUS clearly states that nobody can come to Him except the Father draws that person to Him. For those who are true Christians, WE MUST NOT KID OURSELVES IN THE FACT THAT WE ONLY CAME TO JESUS BECAUSE GOD’S SPIRIT DREW US TO JESUS!
In the present, and in the future, God has His own timing when He will draw each individual to Himself.
Addressing the issue of the belief in eternal annihilation, the Lord clearly tells us in Ecclesiastes 3:11 that He has planted eternity in our hearts. God has made us living Spirits. It is impossible for our Spirit to be destroyed.
GOD HAS NOT FAILED IN HIS ORIGINAL PLAN FOR ALL OF MANKIND WHICH DOES NOT INCLUDE ETERNAL TORMENT OR ETERNAL ANNIHILATION. IT IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR GOD TO FAIL IN ANYTHING!
God worked out His plan in past Ages, God is working out His plan in the present Age that we are now living in, and God will work out His plan in future Ages to come.
I have spent the last several years in Biblically expounding in a 32 page document that I have put together on the truth of there being no eternal suffering in a Lake of Fire for anyone. I have just explained the real LOVE of God that today’s Church just simply does not seem to grasp.
After spending several years of diving deep into the Scriptures to uncover the Biblical truth on this subject, I would like to share these Biblical truths with others so that they can experience the same joy that I experienced which set me free from what I had previously believed for most of my life.
If anyone would be interested in a copy of my document, email me at: (candy33alan@aol.com), and I will email you a copy.
On Pillar #1 you say “the word translated eternal does not mean eternal” and “Every reputable Greek lexicon I could get my hands on says it means “age”.
This is only giving the reader a half-truth. Yes, the lexicons do give ONE translation as “age”, however Lexicons for Aion (165) and Aionios (166) all have definitions that include eternal. Why did you leave this part out of your discussion here completely? I would think a fair biblical critique would have included this fact.
Aion:
– Strong’s: “…and of one of a series of ages stretching to infinity.”
– Bullinger: …”ever”, “eternal”
– Thayer’s: …”2. an unbroken age, perpetuity of time, eternity”
Aionios:
– Strong’s: “age-long, and therefore: practically eternal, unending; partaking of the character of that which lasts for an age, as contrasted with that which is brief and fleeting.”
– Bullinger: “eternal”, “everlasting”, “ever”
– Thayer’s: “1. without beginning or end, that which always has been and always will be”, “3. without end, never to cease, everlasting”
The correct question then becomes which meaning of these words should properly be used in each of these contexts…which I’ll get to later.
On Pillar #2, I don’t see your point. This doesn’t seem to change anything.
1. Are you trying to use Pillar #2 to indicate that every use of “hell” in the NT is meant to refer to a trash heap near Jerusalem? If so, then I don’t get how you think hell is still a real temporary place of torment before ultimate redemption. If you believe hell is a real place not on this earth where punishment is carried out, your Pillar #2 is pointless to bring up.
2. Only SOME of the verses describing hell use Gehenna (1067). But there are many other verses that teach on hell that do not use Gehenna. See fire (pur) and destruction (olethros) etc etc. So it would be wrong to dismiss all of the texts about hell just because one of the words may refer to something else. However…
3. “Gehenna” is almost always used in Jesus’ parables. And as such is a symbol. Symbols in Jesus’ parables are not meant to be taken as the point of the discussion, but are meant to represent a higher reality. Vine and branches. Wedding feasts. Garments and patches. Sowing Seeds. Jesus isn’t teaching botany, matrimony, textiles, or farming in these passages and neither is he teaching that people should put their trash in a trash pile here. Gehenna is a symbol just like all the others about a reality, in this case an actual Hell.
One of the main problems with the UR understanding of “eternal hell/destruction/death” is that oftentimes in Scripture eternal death is contrasted with “eternal heaven/life”. If one thinks that “eternal” in these cases should be translated as “temporary” then you would also translate these mirror texts as “temporary heaven / temporary life” after we die. Do you believe that we only have temporary life after we die if we have followed Christ? Why change the definition when it comes to hell in these symmetric texts then? Here are two examples:
Matt 25:46 (interlinear)
“And will go away these into punishment AIONIOS but the righteous into life AIONIOS”
This is a passage that mirrors death and life in the afterlife and it’s proper through symmetry then to interpret AIONIOS both times as “eternal”. Another way of looking at it is if the immediate context of the phrase uses “eternal” for life, then contextually it is using “eternal” for punishment. It is obviously not saying “temporary punishment, temporary life”.
2 Thess 2:16:
“…our Lord Jesus Christ …has given us eternal (aionios) comfort”
Are we to regard this as “temporary” comfort? No we regard this as “forever” comfort.
Now previously in the same letter….
2 Thess 1:8-9:
“when Jesus will be revealed from heaven….[Jesus and the angels]… deal out retribution to those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel…these will pay the penalty of eternal (aionios) destruction…”
This is, at the end of time, Jesus is returning to judge the world, and the punishment of retributive judgement on that day for these people is “forever” destruction. It is consistent to say Paul in this same letter is using the same word in the same way. Paul elsewhere describes this moment of judgement as an “eternal judgement” (Heb 6:2).
So ultimately, I think the two objections you have to understanding “eternal hell” in the as “temporary hell” are not sustained and the clear teaching of Scripture is a punishment that is forever.
Beyond this, just a couple other thoughts. This view of “temporary” hell serves to weaken the urgency in spreading the good news. If we can all just wait until we’re dead to repent, why would there be any urgency by Jesus and all apostles to share the gospel on earth? Just tell your neighbor “hey, don’t worry about it right now…just make sure you put faith in Jesus after you’re dead.”
I suppose you missed the big bold red letters that said this article was only an overview? I think I deal with every single one of your objections during the course of the article series. Perhaps read through the entire series without commenting, then go back and comment on the appropriate article about the various issues if you still believe there are any.
No, I saw that. I’m just responding to each article as I go. Respectfully, my point was that your overview here nor the next article, gives the full picture of the lexicons, but leads the reader to believe there is only the definition of “human age”. You left off definitions that legitimately do mean “eternal” from these discussions.
Can you not agree that you should have included all the lexicon of the greek words and not just the ones that support your view?
Your statement “the word translated eternal does not mean eternal” is just false. The word translated eternal DOES mean eternal and DOES mean a human age. You just need to determine which meaning the author is intending to convey.
See my comment on the appropriate article for a response, and please remember that you recently asked me about the proper use of a lexicon in a previous comment on another article. It’s possible I had a good reason, and wasn’t being disingenuous as you have accused me of being.
What was the reason for leaving out a lexicon’s definition?
I never accused you of being disingenuous.
You said in your comment on the next article:
And I gave the reason in my response to that comment, since aion was the topic of the article.
I apologize if it sounded like I was saying you were being disingenuous. I don’t mean to say that you are, just that it comes across to the reader as if you have no awareness of the other half of the lexicon.
I still don’t understand why you didn’t include the other definitions.
Wow, I guess it’s a real shame Paul and the other apostles worked so hard to spread the Gospel.
Eternal torment was a belief held before 540 AD, because The Apocalypse of Paul was written in the 4th century and it includes the standard view of hell.
Why was Israel commanded to be Holy if, in the end, they could all be saved? So Jesus could be born?
What about Jesus’s words on ‘the narrow path’, or the parable of the rich man and Lazarus? Judas – better to have never been born? Also, “it’s better to enter heaven blind that go to hell with both eyes”.
In Acts 2:47, it’s clear people are in the process of being saved: “And the Lord added to their number daily those who were BEING saved”. You see this many times in the epistles also.
Paul clearly says ‘they will NOT inherit the kingdom of God’. Ever. Obviously, this about heaven.
Why do you ignore passages like Matthew 25:46, Rev 3:5, James 5:20 and Jude 1:7, 12-13, 22-23?
Hebrews 4:2-3 fully ends the discussion: “They shall NEVER enter my rest”.
We seek God because he loved us and sought us first. Fear should lead us to repentance, and then we will come to the love of God, because fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, and the love of God is the result.
What is your view on apostasy? In Revelation, Jesus said “outside are the dogs…”, a reference to 2 Peter 2:22.
I deal with most, maybe all? of those passages/issues during the course of the article series. I recommend you read it and then comment on the appropriate article after you’ve finished the whole series.
Hebrews 4:2-3 doesn’t use the word Greek word that means “never”, nor any construction of Greek that could mean never. If your translation says “never”, then I humbly suggest you get a new one. I have an article on What’s the Best Bible Translation? And More Importantly, Why?
Have you forgotten about Polycarp and other martys?
Look at this account from 249 AD, in Fox’s Book Of Martyrs:
“Denisa, a young woman of only sixteen years of age, who beheld this terrible judgment, suddenly exclaimed, “O unhappy wretch, why would you buy a moment’s ease at the expense of a miserable eternity!” Optimus, hearing this, called to her, and Denisa avowing herself to be a christian, she was beheaded, by his order, soon after.”
I’m sorry, but your Soteriology is very wrong. Remember, teachers will be judged more harshly.
The view of eternal torment was of course held by some earlier than when it became official doctrine in the 6th century. However, I argue in the 8th article that it was a minority view.
Okay, but what about Polycarp? Wasn’t he taught be John himself? What would motivate him to hold such a view?
This is what he said before he died:
“You threaten me with fire which burns for an hour, and is then extinguished, but you know nothing of the fire of the coming judgment and eternal punishment, reserved for the ungodly. Why are you waiting? Bring on whatever you want.”
Neither the apostles nor their disciples were perfect. Paul records that Peter separated himself from gentiles and had to be rebuked. Ignatius is also thought to be a disciple of John and he was born before Polycarp — so he probably had longer under John’s tutelage — yet he teaches this:
That’s earlier than Polycarp, should we take that as a teaching of John as well? Should we say that anything the church leaders don’t want you to do is sinful?
I mention this to show that the pupil’s views don’t always reflect the views of the teacher.
Additionally, I would need to see the Greek phrasing of that statement before I thought it supported eternal torment because “eternal punishment” is a translation, and quite possibly doesn’t represent the intended meaning. See the second article in this series for details.
How can I copy all 9 parts to save and read later>
I am new to reading the Bible and by no means have as much knowledge about Christianity and the Bible as those responding. In reading the first of these articles about Universal Restoration, it seems to me that if you believe in a second chance for salvation after death, what would be the incentive to live a Christian life while you are alive here on Earth.
I also wonder how much awareness you will have in the place of external torment. Alive, all I have is faith that the Bible contains the word of God. After death if I’m aware that I’m in Hell, then I would absolutely know the Bible was true and immediately repent. It’s hard to imagine that the biggest sinners of the past will be able to come to the same place as those who lived the best possible Christian life while alive. Then again, the Lord said, “his thoughts are not our thoughts, and his ways are not our ways”.
The same place perhaps, but without the reward that the faithful are promised. Also, “salvation” isn’t just about avoiding hell. The way the gospel is preached these days you’d think it was, but it’s not. I talk about this a bit more in the 7th article. Additionally, if someone gave you a change to skip a long sentence in a Soviet era gulag, would you take it? Obviously “hell” is much worse, so…
I wanted to add this comment to the comment that I previously posted in June of 2022 on this site.
JESUS Himself proclaims in John 12:32 that He will draw ALL people unto Himself, and then In Colossians 1:20, we are told that JESUS is going to reconcile all things unto Himself. These 2 Passages of Scripture make it quite clear that not one single individual will suffer eternal torment.
When it seems that a number of verses in the Bible seem to contradict other verses in the Bible, it then becomes so very important for us to understand that the Bible contains a number of words and phrases that are to be interpreted as “METAPHORS.” When we come to this critical understanding, it then becomes clear that the Bible does not contradict itself. In fact, coming to this understanding, is monumental in our coming to a correct understanding of God’s Truth in the Scriptures.
JESUS often used metaphors in His teaching. It took me many years to come to this understanding.
Our present time here on Earth is not about who is going to Hell and who is going to Heaven, because the Scriptures clearly reveal to us that nobody is going to suffer eternal torment.
From even before creation, God had already pre-determined that He was going to prepare a Bride for Himself. From the very beginning of the creation of Adam & Eve, God has been preparing a Bride for Himself.
So our present time here, is about who will become part of the Bride of Christ. The rest of humanity will eventually live forever in the Kingdom of God. These will be the people that JESUS and the Bride of Christ (the true Church) will rule & reign over for ALL ETERNITY.
The Church today has failed to recognize and understand this GREAT TRUTH which has led to much confusion.
If anyone would be interested in reading my32 page document on this subject, email me at: (candy33alan@aol.com) and I will send you a copy.
Jeffrey defended the truth very well here because the issue here: it’s about the word eternal, you didn’t give us the complete meaning of that word.
I specifically said that I was only giving an overview here, and nothing else. I deal with the word at length in the second article of the series, including quoting many lexicons.
To Jeffery, he unfortunately didn’t know how to read a lexicon and eventually admitted as much. He wasn’t even using a lexicon; he was using a concordance. If you want to read the rest of my discussion with him, please go to the comments on the second article. The comment chain started on November 23, 2022, currently about 3/4 of the way down the page.
I applaud your ability to open worm cans and actually defend it well. I’m intrigued mostly because of my lifelong fear of hell since childhood and growing up in the church. Even as a believer now, the incongruity of a merciful, gracious and loving God sending his creation to eternal torment is troubling. I can’t say I’m convinced yet, but certainly have food for thought. I will read the series you referenced soon.
I just encountered your articles, and thoroughly enjoy your approach to studying scriptures in search for truth, because it’s so recognizable to me.
One quick thing; you write:
“For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.
The word “all” in the first clause clearly means all men without exception. Could the “all” in the second clause mean all men without exception too? ”
I think you’re missing an essential point here. “In Adam” and “in Christ” represent two groups of people. Similar to how Noah and his family where saved “in the ark”. To be “in Adam”, means to be in the group of people that are descendant from Adam, to be “in Christ”, means to be in the group of people that “connected” to Christ, like in John 15:
““I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.”
The phrase “in Christ” is in my opinion one of the most underestimated theological relevant phrases in the whole NT, as in my opinion it is an important predicate on many statements that would otherwise to be understood to be unconditional, where they’re actually conditional, based on the understanding as witnessed in John 15.
Now, “all” in Adam are his the descendants, and “all” in Christ, are those that remain in Him until they have finished the race, just as Paul exclaimed in 2 Timothy
“I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith.”
I agree that “in Christ” is a greatly underappreciated phrase in theology. It’s really quite mind blowing if you think about it. 🙂
I would say that your understanding makes a little sense in English but it’s grammatically inadmissible in Greek. I would argue it’s inadmissible in English as well. Many people read this as you suggest, mentally and probably unintentionally reading it as: “all in Christ will be made alive”, instead of “in Christ, all will be made alive”. The trouble is, that’s not what it says. I do talk more about this in the 5th article.
I’ve read your 5th article, but I don’t see anything about the Greek in there, so I find your “inadmissible in Greek” hard to grok. I don’t find most commentaries trying to explain the Greek.
My premise doesn’t depend on word order (which is irrelevant in Greek anyway), but on the notion that “all” is always dependent on context. (E.g. “All” have sinned means “all descendants of Adam, possibly only those who could have made a conscious decision to sin e.g. not little children, except Christ” have sinned). The context is the group noted by “in Christ”. All of them will be saved.
I’ve read a few commentaries which talked about the Greek there, but I don’t remember which ones. Word order is indeed far more flexible in Greek, but it does matter for grouping functions such as we are discussing here. Please see my article on the basics of Greek if you haven’t studied the language.
To 1 Corinthians 15:22 specifically, “all” isn’t grouped with “in Christ” using any of the standard grouping functions in Greek. (For example: “the in Christ all”, where “the” and “all” match gender, case, and number would do it with great clarity.) None of the grouping features that would make your understanding possible are present. The idea that the second “all” is limited to those “in Christ” is simply not supported by the Greek grammar. The way it’s written precludes that from being a possibility.
Well, although I’m no scholar, I know some Greek. As I suppose you’re also not a Greek scholar, I would like you to elaborate with sources why my interpretation is not *possible*.
Well, here’s Meyer’s NT commentary to support what I said, though he doesn’t explain the Greek for reasons I’ll explain after the quote:
The proof you seek is rather like asking a student to show his work when solving for 2+2=4. Perhaps a better example is the sentence “He picked up her watch”, where you take the position that the watch being picked up belongs to the “he”. I say that because we are discussing foundational Greek grammar; i.e. how to associate one word (or phrase) with another. Thus if you need more proof, perhaps the best source is a book on basic Greek grammar; even better would be a course on Greek. 🙂
As a second remark; the text says: “For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.”. We know all people will be resurrected, or made alive, so another possible interpretation is that it is about a universal resurrection. Some resurrect to eternal life, some resurrect to the second death.
If you go to Revelation, you’ll see that those standing before the Great White Throne are specifically stated to be dead no less than 4 times. I don’t see how “will be made alive” can apply if they are specifically stated to be dead.
Sorry, I don’t buy your reply “just pick up a basic Greek course” (and I already told you I have basic Greek language skills). You made multiple claims w.r.t. the Greek that my interpretation is not even _possible_, which I honestly think is not at all what the Greek requires (I don’t see why πάντες needs to be in the dative, at all, to be considered to be able to be modified by “in Christ”). So the burden of proof is on you to show just that. If my mistake is that obvious, that should be pretty easy.
I’ll reply to this in my reply to your next comment.
And maybe as an addition: even the commentary you quote does NOT say my interpretation is NOT possible because of the Greek, but argues that based on interpretation. If it was not possible, that would not be a discussion point at all.
I think you’re bluffing.
I recommend that you re-read that quote more carefully because it absolutely does assume that your understanding isn’t possible. Notice the use of the word “since”:
The word “since” assumes that its following statement is categorically true without even the possibility of it being wrong. Example: “Since gold is dense, it feels heavy”; that statement doesn’t even admit the possibility that gold isn’t dense. It’s the same with that quote. As you pointed out, obvious Greek grammar issues are almost never commented on. The exception to that rule are phrases like this one that begin with words like “since” when they support another point. When read carefully, his commentary doesn’t even allow for the word “all” (πάντες) to mean “all believers”. This is as clear a statement as you are likely to find on such a basic word association issue, again as you yourself pointed out.
To your previous comment, I’m not saying that πάντες needs to be Dative. In fact, good/clear Greek wouldn’t have in the Dative and would use the definite article’s grouping function, as I already mentioned. (Not that it has to be that; that’s just one way to make it clear.) Yes, you did say that you have “basic Greek language skills”, but the statements that you’ve made about Greek seem to indicate gaps in your knowledge of word/phrase association rules. That’s why I suggested a book on basic Greek grammar or a course, since they would help to close those gaps.